Old men getting kicked out of shopping malls for wearing offensive t-shirts? Yes, this did happen folks, in the only place that it can -- Long Island, NY
No Mall For Old Men
One More Article / Un Altro Articolo
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Over the years teaching at La Scuola d’Italia NY, I have learned that
children are not just students; they are careful observers of the world,
full of q...
6 months ago
Yet another fine post from the Jonestown Super Team.
ReplyDeleteWhat else would one expect?
It was a great discussion you started over at Jonestown about a worthy topic. Nice one.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't believe this when I read it at Newsday. HFS. I had no idea that it was this bad here. I need to get out more. Today I am walking the Roosevelt Field Mall with a big old peace sign shirt... just testing.
ReplyDeleteFairlane/Susan - Thanks. Much appreciated.
ReplyDeleteLiz - Test away and let me know the results. Take pictures and post in Blondesense. I would love nothing more to be proven wrong in what I posited over at JT.
Isn't it amazing how the simplest of posts can take on a life of their own?
ReplyDeleteBetween your post, and Scarlet's, we've had over 60 comments in the last couple of days.
Mi brother: OK, I'm waving the white flag. I can't make my point of view on this subject clear no matter how many times i re-phrase it.
ReplyDeleteI reflexively side with Don Zirkel but I see the property rights argument as well. But why can't it be understood that the latter argument doesn't end the discussion it only ratchets it up to a higher level because capitalism is more complicated than just "owner-good-protestor-bad."
A mall owner in New York State could bury himself doing something like this especially as he's holding just a mountain of debt right now in a weak commercial real estate market. Do he and prog/trad think that Bush is going to ride in on a white horse and save him because he was patriotic?
A CROSS-POST OF MY LAST COMMENT AND MY EFFORT TO COOL THINGS OFF WITH PROG/TRAD
ReplyDeleteUN MAL ARREGLO ES MEJOR QUE UN BUEN PLEITO — A bad handshake is better than a good cop. I love that phrase.
Progressive Traditionalist, here is my virtual hand for shaking, an agreement to disagree, and with the idea that despite how hot it got, both of us made it lively. I’ll let your last series of insults stand as the final words on the subject. My feelings are not hurt. Don’t worry. It takes a lot more than that. In fact, I respect your gumption because you know how I am ABLE to respond if pushed.
If you want an apology, you’ve got it. I don’t need one. Just a virtual handshake will do.
I’d rather go back to appreciating your posts, your comments, and the body of experience you bring to them. You are still on my blogroll.
I’m over this. I hope you are too.
Cheers,
Kelso
Sparty- Do you have any more posts about Malls?
ReplyDeletespart -- that was one "interesting" thread....
ReplyDeleteand you dont even live in NJ --- land of the malls!
spartacus,
ReplyDeleteYou've commented on your atheism. Your rejection of your Catholic upbringing.
If you had some friends and neighbors over for a barbeque and one of them brought his Bible and began preaching to the other guests, I am certain you would tell him to knock it off. I'm sure if he refused to stop you'd ask him to leave. If he refused to leave your property, you might call the cops.
I'm sure you would acknowledge that a visitor to your home does not have your permission to do whatever he pleases.
In that scenario, your position is the same as the mall owners. Private property. The rules of the owner prevail.
There is a bizarre notion held by millions of people that equates "free speech" with doing/saying anything one wants wherever one feels like doing/saying it.
Millions also think that businesses cannot refuse service to customers. But a business can refuse service to anyone and the business is not obligated to give a reason.
I guess I shouldn't go over there wearing my peak oil T-shirt then.
ReplyDeleteAlecto - wear the shirt if you must, but take pictures if you do...
ReplyDeleteHey no-slappz welcome back. First off, lets take this out of the personal realm because people invited to my home are welcome to speak their minds so long as they respect my home. For me, opinions matter. But when opinions turn to violence or any other form of attention grabbing stupidity, I give them a toss.
Now as for the malls being private property, I suppose it is, but unlike my home, there are no restrictions on who may and who may not enter. In fact, the Civil Rights Act includes language that expressly prohibits discrimination in public facilities, the category of which I believe a mall falls under.
That said, what I'd like to see is some type compromise here. I mean it's one thing to protest in a mall vocally and harass customers, but how sensitive have we become if a fucking t-shirt with writing on it gets you 86's from a mall? If he was no threat and harassing no one, shouldn't the mall security just leave this guy be? I'm just sayin....
Kelso/Fairlane/DCap - I suppose I touched a nerve with this "mall" post, eh? I don't have any in the hopper now, but my inspirations are always moment to moment.
ReplyDeletespartacus,
ReplyDeleteAs you noted, malls are private property -- like your home in many ways. And, as you said yourself, people can come to your home and speak their minds as long as they respect your home. In other words, you have personal rules that define "respect" for your home.
Mall operators have their rules. Moreover, there are restrictions on the behavior of people in malls. The restrictions are set by the mall owners and the store operators, not the Civil Rights Act. Businesses can refuse service to anyone and order anyone off the premises. Meanwhile, giving someone a reason is not required.
However, as the Civil Rights Act mandates, a business cannot refuse service to someone due to his race, creed, color, religion or country of origin, or due to disability. Age discrimination is also prohibited. But that may be limited to hiring and firing situations.
Hence, Barnes & Noble is no longer a de facto homeless shelter. Many of the Manhattan stores had become the preferred hangouts of foul smelling homeless people who found the hard chairs of libraries unappealing. The soft easy-chairs at B&N were the best deal in town for a few years. Then B&N overcame its self-defeating practice of tolerance and tossed out the human stink-bombs, who, for the most part, merely dozed in the chairs.
In other words, the concept of harrassment of customers is mainly in the mind of the business operator. I suppose Zirkel was not much of a threat to business, but I don't know the details of his encounter with mall personnel or shop owners. He might have expressed too much defiance and too little diplomacy to someone with the power to run him off.
During the Republican convention I went to a number of hot spots and gathering places. Lots of cops patrolled in uniform to send the message that protestors should stick to vocal protesting and forget any plans to create havoc. The strategy of pre-empting problems with this display of potential force and the capacity to arrest troublemakers worked remarkably well.
The cost of a few lawsuits for detaining some people whose behavior may not have warranted time in the holding pen is a fair price for preventing the catastrophes some protestors had hoped to carry out.
Oh, look, it's Nose Laps! I wonder where he has been. Not that I really care, actually.
ReplyDelete