Okay. I'll level with you. I've been known in comments and in posts to refer to Republicans by many and varied pet names -- Shrub, Chimpy McFlightsuit, Darth Cheney, Ad nauseam.
I think I even gave pet names to Palin and McCain. Call me a hypocrite. I can take it.
But I had an epiphany the other day. It appears to me, after reading a large number of political blog posts in the last month or so, that the name calling has gone into overdrive.
Now I must ask: Is it necessary?
I've seen some finely constructed arguments calling Bush the worst President ever, reduced to mush by this device. I know that voting for a McCain/Palin administration is a bad idea, but instead of making jokes about Palin's voice, hair, or making other derogatory statements outside the realm of satire, how about appealing to my desire for focused targeted information in a well-constructed essay? Name calling is not satire. It's just petty.
I'd say stop it already, but I'm torn about this. Like my fellow bloggers, I sometimes take the view that it's my blog, my rules. If you don't like what I wrote, click off.
By the same token, if we don't invite dissent and discussion on our blogs -- if we're always of a mind to tell dissenting bloggers to click off and not try to use reason to win over the other side -- what's the point of writing it? Venting?
As I watch the McCain/Palin campaign turn the invective dial to "11" against Barack Obama I'm appalled by their calling him a Muslim terrorist, a traitor, and unqualified to be President. An audience member at a Palin-led rally even shouted "kill him." We know that citizens who are voting for McCain/Palin are likely to be true believers who willfully ignore the woeful facts about the last eight years of Republican leadership. But we on the progressive left do our arguments no good when we resort to the same name calling.
Far be it from me to tell another blogger how to refer to Bush, Cheney, McCain and Palin, or even Obama and Biden for that matter. If they happen not to like them, they can call them what they want.
No more name calling here.
you bring up a good point and i am so guilty of the name calling --- more as a way to vent and a way to make fun of-- but the name calling ends up overtaking the points -- that most republicans, esp Bush are corrupt and bankrupt in their souls.
ReplyDeletea good argument should triumph over rapid anger every time. look at o'reilly - he is just a volcano and people think he is insane (well he is) --- when we go the name calling route, we are bringing ourselves closer to that level.
the reason i think i do it -- is that after 8 years of incredible incompetence and downright neglect -- being nice and respectful is one of the first things to go.
i know i wont stop, and i should. my hate and anger towards bush and his cronies is just too deep - but i also call him chimpy is a cheap shot and the easy way out --- it doesnt make one's case as to why he is the worst president ever or the most incompetent
plus calling him chimpy is a lot eaier to type than a whole paragraph.
i had to sound cliche - you get more flies with honey than vinegar. tho who wants those nasty GOP flies
Much like DCap, my anger trumps my better judgment so many times, but you make an excellent point, Spartacus. I don't think any of us on the progressive side would like to practice the "tactics" that the McCain/Palin side is using these days, and that includes all sorts of nicknames and insanity.
ReplyDeleteDCap - We're all guilty of this. That's why I raised the point. For me this is sort of an act of contrition because this is a very recent, but raw, feeling for me. I can totally understand why you and many of our fellow bloggers feel as we do about Bush. Truth be told, I took some guilty pleasure in creating the graphics for this post; especially the last one. However, I think I'm just giving voice to what's on lots of people's minds. BTW. I loved the last line in your comment. Classic.
ReplyDeleteWell DG, it's not so much that I detest the use of derogatory nicknames. If the point of a post is to vent, call those bastards every nasty name in the book. I'll certainly understand. But I think you get it when I say that name calling has no place in an essay of cogent, serious arguments against the Bush Administration. We're much better than that.
I love you, Buddy, but I just can't stop calling an ...... well anyways.
ReplyDeleteThis is a great post. I read it earlier and hung my head in shame.
ReplyDeleteYou say some good stuff here.
Thanks Spartacus.
Ah. What's in a name? A steaming pile of shit by any other name would smell as bad.
ReplyDeleteSee? Even the bard thinks you're correct in taking the high road. But Spartacus, seriously, wouldn't it be great fun to ever-so-slightly alter all the ballots on November 4, so the Republican candidates names would read: McCain't and Pain?
Good post, Spartacus. Thing is, I don't think the republicans will show restraint. I also remember something my friend John said that his father, who was a congressman, told him: when they start laughing at you, you are done. When liberals/democrats/progressives choose names, it is in the spirit of mockery. Republicans choose nicknames out of anger. There is a difference. That said, ultimately, if we want a more civil discourse, you are right.
ReplyDeleteWelcome to the High Side, Spart.
ReplyDeleteI made a public commitment to eschew the name calling something like a year ago, mostly in a visceral response to Ann Coulter's cesspool, um, blog, and my readership went through the floor.
Hey, I can take it; plus, it makes one think a whole lot harder before opening one's mouth and inserting one's (half) foot.
Thanks for holding this light up to our closet.
If I had a serious blog, I'd seriously - laugh, damn you all to hell, laugh - I'd consider it. For example, when trying to discuss with my wingnut (oops) relatives, I generally use the names on their birth certificate. Then they bring out the Muslim and socialist crap, then I revert to Chimpy and Mooselini and such. But at least I haven't punched anyone yet.
ReplyDeleteI like being a jerk about politics at my place, so I'll continue, but I can definitely get where you're coming from here. I'm naturally cranky, and add in 8 years of angry, well, the High Road® ain't for me at this point. ;-) Plus what pissed said. Stop being mock-worthy and I'll stop mocking, heh heh.
Hey Spartacus, I agree - and I also admit to falling into the trap of name-calling.
ReplyDeleteThe issue is this: it takes thought to not resort to swearing and name-calling - and intelligent argument doesn't do that. There are so many bloggers I stopped reading because every other word was "fuck", interspersed with rude names, attacks - just no real discourse.
I am so imperfect - I like a well placed fuck as much as the next person - DO NOT GO THERE, I AM A GRANDMOTHER - and sometimes I just have to reduce myself to name-calling because I am beyond frustrated. But it doesn't work. It serves no useful purpose.
And so I leave you with this thought: Fucking A.
Agreed. I was on a site I frequent almost daily and appreciate specifically because of the differences between she and me. I followed one of her links to a site that reported the most horrible, untrue, awful things about my candidate of choice and I was left breathless and horrified. I wish I had never looked. What we say that is awful changes no opinions, it just bolsters the way we already feel. Although I must admit that venting is a most excellent form of entertainment and stress relief but here I go being hypocritical myself.
ReplyDeleteWell, you know, then I went and linked Princess Sparkle Pony and I just can't bring myself to unlink it. I'm just sayin.
ReplyDeleteSPARTACUS:
ReplyDeleteI used to feel the way you do. And I have no doubt that DIVAJOOD doesn't come by our gaff because all we do is curse and make up funny shit.
On the other hand, I liked Rachel Maddow's response to David Frum on this same issue. It's a perfectly legitimate style to use humor and satire to make political points. Also, the US has been so let down by the Democratic Party let alone the Republican Party and the MSM in the face of more evidence and all of us put together can cite.
The goofball names crack me up, what can I say?
Nobody dissects business, economics and finance the way Carl, Gabby and I do. We go places with it nobody does. Full stop. Ipso facto. QED. We predicted the huge crude move using the shape of the futures function. We predicted the commodity sell-off using corporate finance tools. We've taken the various bailout things apart bit by bit. We covered most world currencies and given a lot of opinions on fiscal and monetary policy.
All fact, no brag.
So, we curse while we do it and show dirty pictures and use the goofy names for the politicians and cabinet secretaries.
Spartacus, man, last DECEMBER we did a series on the UNION OF SOVIET SOCIALIST STATES OF AMERICA and what happened yesterday? Bush has set into motion not merely the NATIONALIZATION of the 4 biggest banks in America, but rather their SEIZURE.
Diane Tomlinson gives a very sober report of cases of Church and School child abuse each week.
Sarah Bloch covers every important judicial ruling.
Nobody does American History like us. Nor foreign affairs.
1-1-8's "Burning Down The House Series" was FINISHED before any other blog was using the word "mortgage."
I'll put our MSM critique's up with anyone's in that we cite the pieces and analyze them. We don't just whine about "corporate media" and move on.
In some ways we're a legitmate sports, gambling, and gay site, too.
Most importantly, we're non-partisan. And we've always refrained from using the facile Color-By-Numbers-Bolshevism or absurd conspiracy theories about international banking cabals that have been EVERYWHERE the last three or four weeks. I find that as tedious as perhaps other folks do the nicknames.
We are also the only progressive site which has been always strong and radical for peace and social justice yet not afraid to use the word "capitalism." In fact, we all without fear approve of capitalism in almost every piece and look for ways that other more democratic countries use it as a means of growth and fairer allocation of wealth than in the US. Why is everybody so afraid of writing the word "capitalism" in a positive way is something I'd like to know? If the Color-by-Numbers-Bolshviks don't like capitalism, they should think in terms of taking their computer and their modem and throwing them in the garbage, and maybe using Dixie Cups and some string instead.
And at the same time, we're not scared of writing what's valuable in Marxist ideology either. Instead of whining about "the rich," we'll discuss the Theory Of Surplus Value or Dialectical Materialism and how that is a political version of free-market economics, and stuff like that.
You read us, buddy. You know I'm telling the truth. And I know our very seriousness aside from all the cursing and dirty pictures and the nicknames and catch-phrases is exactly why we get way more traffic from corporations and universities than we do from progressive bloggers. But The Boss is The Boss is The Boss and that's how he likes it. I know that we've lived up to our end of the bargain in this.
Thanks everybody. The sense I get from all your comments is that some of you agree with where I'm coming from and some of you don't. And, you've all given very good reasons for both sides. Wonderful.
ReplyDeleteIn a way, I was hoping to shake up the blogger snow globe with this post because sometimes I get exasperated when a well-developed and researched essay is bogged down by grade-school name calling. Hey, I understand your reasons for using this language and far be it from me to dictate what you should or shouldn't say on your blogs. But without being too sanctimonious about it, there's a time and place to act like a fucking McDoodyhead.
SPARTACUS: I hear you but if we ever let it get too formal we'd be boring. We're boring enough as it is!
ReplyDeleteJeez, DistributorCapNY has been setting the world on fire lately with his analyses and I really lose nothing of the seriousness of the topic with the occasional CHIMPY.
And there was no way anyone was going to read that whole discussion of the shift in the NYMEX LS CRUDE FUTURES function from backwardation to contango if there weren't a few "suck my dicks" and "asshats"
Kelso. I hear where you're coming from and far be it from me to tell you or the rest of the crew from "Hell" what names to use in your posts. I agree with the assessment of your crew. Many of your posts have been prescient about the current financial mess our country is in. Bravo. you guys called it.
ReplyDeleteBut I respectfully disagree with your assessment that name calling makes an essay boring. You and I know that the English language is much too rich, and our grasp of it much too strong, to need to resort to using provincial language in a serious piece. That's not to say that there's no place for inventing and using funny but derogatory names in the blogosphere. We all have our moments. I understand. But we're better than that, Kelso. Let's show our nuance and act that way.
// Name calling is not satire. It's just petty //
ReplyDeleteOK. but at the same time, itza kinda fun.
... and I know where you're coming from....
But I still think McCain is a Bottomless Bowl Briming of Blubbering Bilious Balderdash!
Okay okjimm... I believe we have an understanding on the name calling and the McCain name. Now, let's both STFU and go have that beer at Oblio's
ReplyDeleteNo, Kelso, I don't go to your place or Dusty's because they are so fucking graphics-heavy my computer can't function! I love Dusty, but her blog doesn't like my computer.
ReplyDeleteMy whole point is this: there is a difference between satire and just plain rage and mean-spirit. I prefer satire.
I am not a prude. (I am not a crook, either, and I don't even own a dog named Checkers.)
Technically, I agree with you. All of your points are valid. when I think about all of the undecideds, I wonder if any of them happen upon a lefty poli blog and are turned off by name-calling.
ReplyDeleteThing is... As much as I want to stop myself from participating, I can't seem to help myself. I feel like Palin and McCain are begging for it. Maybe it's my current calling?
Katie...everyone has their reasons for name calling or not. But there's a time and a place for it.
ReplyDeleteNow, now, Diva... Let's keep the gloves on. I'm going to need your hands intact for the rematch of beanbag toss.
@ SPARTACUS: Claro que si pero tambien tengo mucha rabia con los gringos y sus maneras estupidas empacada adentro. Que va, pue' con toda la vaina de joder a un clases de financistas y jugadores sofisticados certificados con honores por las universidades o tal vez por los estudios de post-graduado?
ReplyDeleteTuve que alejarte de mi hijo y mis padres pa' protegerlos! Mira la vaina esa de los Grandotes Rosados. Pa' que? Dime, porfis. A quien estabamos mis amigos y yo con nuestros teclados nuestros programas EXCEL y nuestros calculadores HP 12-C? No lastimabamos a nadie, cierto? Pero por la falta de haber reversaado la decision Roe v Wade del corte supreme en 1973 escrito por El Senor Doctor Don Harry Blackmun se sentian la necesidad de jodernos en nuestras tareas. A mi no me gusta lamentar ni llorar sino adelantarme con todo el arreglo limitado de las herramientas mias.
Pero, ve, mi brother que todavia me caen malisimo los Gringos Grandotes Rosados Evangelicos Extremos de mierda asi que prefiero reirme de los apodos chistoso en vez de sentirme la rabia. Te haga sentido, si o no?
@ DIVAJOOD: Al final sea tal vez cuestion de escoger y mezclar la ironia de Horacio la ironia de Juvenal y de vez en cuando el aburrimiento a todos con una vaina seria, cierto?
ReplyDeletePero a quien le estas escribiendo de tu "fucking"? jajaja
Guilty as charged, Spartacus. I try and stay on issues. Petty swipes at personalities, unless it's Malkin or Pammygram, seem beside the point. But I have been known to call a douche bag when I see one. However, as Tracy Ullman once said, "Fuck" is wildly underrated.
ReplyDeleteKelso ... si escribir en Inglés o en español, que disminuyan nuestros puntos cuando se lanzan en los nombres que incongruentes con el asunto en mano. Sin embargo, seguir adelante, utilizar nombres si usted siente que debe. Usted me conoce. Nunca volver a celebrar mi "folla" y "mierdas" cuando mi interior Puerto Riqueño se va. Pero es como escribir una potente crítica como una tesis de doctorado y maldiciones intercalando para hacer el punto. En una palabra es inapropiado.
ReplyDeleteMorse, please take no guilt from the point I make here. Indeed, I am a bit critical of the blogosphere to some extent, but far be it from me to deny anyone their freedom of expression on their blogs or any other they choose to leave comments. We all have our reasons for saying what we do.
Maybe it's because I'm still a Canadian that I haven't posted much about politics but then again my friend Crow convinced me a long time ago it's more interesting to look at the money trails.
ReplyDeleteYou've raised an excellent point regarding name calling. It's immature but very tempting under certain circumstances.
Thanks Susan... you know how much I admire your friend Crow. He's right: following the money is the best way to learn political truths. As for name calling, it is tempting. Hopefully, you see the irony in the graphics on this post.
ReplyDeleteKelso, that was quite lyrical, actually, but as I said, I love a well placed fuck just as much as the next person, ya know?
ReplyDeleteAnd Spartz, I always keep the gloves on, they're over the elbow, and quite formal.
And Spartacus, I am convinced that my daughter and Mindy cheated at beanbag toss, but have been unable to prove it.
Susan... I'm gratified to know that you have not lost your sense of decorum and elegance. But I think we need to let go of the beanbag toss loss. We were beaten by worthy opponents in a exciting, well-played contest.
ReplyDelete